Thanks for all your help! Alan Bradley, Doug Beam, Darren Dunham, Amber.Wolfe, -- Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off... -- -----Original Message----- From: Beam, Doug [mailto:dbeam@sath.com] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:36 AM To: 'Loukinas, Jeremy' Subject: RE: EMC disk mapping Hope this helps. Here is my sd.conf and lpfc.conf. I have highlighted in red and my comments are in purple. If you have a HBA other than a LP8000 yor lpfc.conf may have another name. MY sd.conf # # Copyright (c) 1992, by Sun Microsystems, Inc. # #ident "@(#)sd.conf 1.9 98/01/11 SMI" name="sd" class="scsi" class_prop="atapi" target=0 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" class_prop="atapi" target=1 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" class_prop="atapi" target=2 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" class_prop="atapi" target=3 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=4 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=5 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=6 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=8 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=9 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=10 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=11 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=12 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=13 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=14 lun=0; name="sd" class="scsi" target=15 lun=0; # Start lpfc auto-generated configuration -- do NOT alter or delete this line # WARNING: anything you put within this auto-generated section will # be DELETED if you execute pkgrm to remove the lpfc driver package. # You may need to add additional lines to probe for additional LUNs # or targets. You SHOULD delete any lines that represent lpfc targets # or LUNs that are not used. # You should add any new entries between this line # and the End lpfc auto generated configuration line # name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=16 lun=0; # name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=17 lun=0; # A small number of LUNs for a RAID array # name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=17 lun=1; # name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=17 lun=2; # name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=17 lun=3; # # 177 is the LUN number converted from hex B1 as displayed from EMC controllcenter. name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=177 hba="lpfc0"; lpfc0 is the device name of the Emelux LP8000 HBA. name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=178 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=179 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=180 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=181 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=182 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=183 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=184 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=185 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=186 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=187 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=188 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=189 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=190 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=191 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=192 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=193 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=194 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=195 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=196 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=197 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=198 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=199 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=200 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=201 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=202 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=203 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=204 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=205 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=206 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=207 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=208 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=209 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=210 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=211 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=212 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=213 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=214 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=215 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=216 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=217 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=218 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=219 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=220 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=221 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=222 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=223 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=224 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=225 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=226 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=227 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=228 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=229 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=230 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=231 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=232 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=233 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=234 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=235 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=236 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=237 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=238 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=239 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=240 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=254 hba="lpfc0"; name="sd" parent="lpfc" target=20 lun=255 hba="lpfc0"; # End lpfc auto-generated configuration -- do NOT alter or delete this line MY /kernel/drv/lpfc.conf # # COPYRIGHT 2002, EMULEX CORPORATION # 3535 Harbor Boulevard, Costa Mesa, CA 92626 # # All rights reserved. This computer program and related documentation # is protected by copyright and distributed under licenses restricting # its use, copying, distribution and decompilation. This computer # program and its documentation are CONFIDENTIAL and a TRADE SECRET # of EMULEX CORPORATION. The receipt or possession of this program # or its documentation does not convey rights to reproduce or disclose # its contents, or to manufacture, use, or sell anything that it may # describe, in whole or in part, without the specific written consent # of EMULEX CORPORATION. Any reproduction of this program without # the express written consent of EMULEX CORPORATION is a violation # of the copyright laws and may subject you to criminal prosecution. # # $Id: lpfc.conf 1.19 2002/06/03 16:08:49 mks Exp $ # # Solaris LightPulse lpfc (SCSI) / lpfn (IP) driver: global initialized data. # # Verbosity: only turn this flag on if you are willing to risk being # deluged with LOTS of information. # You can set a bit mask to record specific types of verbose messages: # # 0x1 ELS events # 0x2 Device Discovery events # 0x4 Mailbox Command events # 0x8 Miscellaneous events # 0x10 Link Attention events # 0x20 IP events # 0x40 FCP events # 0x80 Node table events # 0x1000 FCP Check Condition events log-verbose=0x10; # Setting log-only to 0 causes log messages to be printed on the # console and to be logged to syslog (which may send them to the # console again if it's configured to do so). # Setting log-only to 1 causes log messages to go to syslog only. log-only=1; # # +++ Variables relating to FCP (SCSI) support. +++ # # Setup FCP persistent bindings, # fcp-bind-WWPN binds a specific WorldWide PortName to a target id, # fcp-bind-WWNN binds a specific WorldWide NodeName to a target id, # fcp-bind-DID binds a specific DID to a target id. # Only one binding method can be used. # WWNN, WWPN and DID are hexadecimal values. # WWNN must be 16 digits with leading 0s. # WWPN must be 16 digits with leading 0s. # DID must be 6 digits with leading 0s. # The SCSI ID to bind to consists of two parts, the lpfc interface # to bind to, and the target number for that interface. # Thus lpfc0t2 specifies target 2 on interface lpfc0. # NOTE: Target ids, with all luns supported, must also be in sd.conf. # scan-down must be set to 0 or 1, not 2 which is the default!! # # Here are some examples: # WWNN SCSI ID # fcp-bind-WWNN="2000123456789abc:lpfc1t0", # "20000020370c27f7:lpfc0t2"; # # WWPN SCSI ID # fcp-bind-WWPN="2100123456789abc:lpfc0t0", # "21000020370c2855:lpfc0t1", # "2100122222222222:lpfc2t2"; # fcp-bind-WWPN="50060482bfd23e5c:lpfc0t20"; 50060482bfd23e5c is the WWN from the EMC sym Fiber Adapter (FA) # lpfc0t20 binds the WWN to the controler and target in this case target 20 # DID SCSI ID # fcp-bind-DID="0000ef:lpfc0t3"; # BEGIN: LPUTIL-managed Persistent Bindings # If automap is set, SCSI IDs for all FCP nodes without # persistent bindings will be automatically generated. # If new FCP devices are added to the network when the system is down, # there is no guarantee that these SCSI IDs will remain the same # when the system is booted again. # If one of the above fcp binding methods is specified, then automap # devices will use the same mapping method to preserve # SCSI IDs between link down and link up. # If no bindings are specified above, a value of 1 will force WWNN # binding, 2 for WWPN binding, and 3 for DID binding. # If automap is 0, only devices with persistent bindings will be # recognized by the system. automap=2; # fcp-on: true (1) if FCP access is enabled, false (0) if not. fcp-on=1; # lun-queue-depth: the default value lpfc will use to limit # the number of outstanding commands per FCP LUN. This value is # global, affecting each LUN recognized by the driver, but may be # overridden on a per-LUN basis (see below). RAID arrays may want # to be configured using the per-LUN tunable throttles. lun-queue-depth=20; # tgt-queue-depth: the default value lpfc will use to limit # the number of outstanding commands per FCP target. This value is # global, affecting each target recognized by the driver, but may be # overridden on a per-target basis (see below). RAID arrays may want # to be configured using the per-target tunable throttles. A value # of 0 means don't throttle the target. tgt-queue-depth=512; # lpfcNtM-lun-throttle: the maximum number of outstanding commands to # permit for each LUN of an FCP target that supports multiple LUNs. # The default throttle for the number of commands outstanding to a single # LUN of a multiple-LUN target is lun-queue-depth. For a target that # can support multiple LUNs, it may be useful to specify a LUN throttle # that differs from the default. # Example: lpfc0t17-lun-throttle=48; # says that each LUN on target 17, interface lpfc0 should be allowed # up to 48 simultaneously outstanding commands. #lpfc1t39-lun-throttle=10; #lpfc0t40-lun-throttle=30; # lpfcNtM-tgt-throttle: the maximum number of outstanding commands to # permit for a FCP target. # By default, target throttle is diabled. # Example: lpfc0t17-tgt-throttle=48; # says that target 17, interface lpfc0 should be allowed # up to 48 simultaneously outstanding commands. #lpfc1t39-tgt-throttle=10; #lpfc0t40-tgt-throttle=30; # no-device-delay [0 to 30] - determines the length of # the interval between deciding to fail back an I/O because there is no way # to communicate with its particular device (e.g., due to device failure) and # the actual fail back. A value of zero implies no delay whatsoever. # Cautions: (1) This value is in seconds. # (2) Setting a long delay value may permit I/O to build up, # each with a pending timeout, which could result in the exhaustion of # critical Solaris kernel resources. In this case, you may see a fatal # message such as # PANIC: Timeout table overflow # # Note that this value can have an impact on the speed with which a # system can shut down with I/Os pending and with the HBA not able to # communicate with the loop or fabric, e.g., with a cable pulled. no-device-delay=0; # # +++ Variables relating to IP networking support. +++ # # network-on: true (1) if networking is enabled, false (0) if not # This variable will be set during the installation of the driver # via pkgadd. network-on=0; # xmt-que-size: size of the transmit queue for mbufs (128 - 10240) xmt-que-size=256; # # +++ Variables common to both SCSI (FCP) and IP networking support. +++ # # Some disk devices have a "select ID" or "select Target" capability. # From a protocol standpoint "select ID" usually means select the # Fibre channel "ALPA". In the FC-AL Profile there is an "informative # annex" which contains a table that maps a "select ID" (a number # between 0 and 7F) to an ALPA. If scan-down is set to a value of 0, # the lpfc driver assigns target ids by scanning its ALPA map # from low ALPA to high ALPA. # # Turning on the scan-down variable (on = 1,2, off = 0) will # cause the lpfc driver to use an inverted ALPA map, effectively # scanning ALPAs from high to low as specified in the FC-AL annex. # A value of 2, will also cause target assignment in a private loop # environment to be based on the ALPA (hard addressed). # # Note: This "select ID" functionality is a PRIVATE LOOP ONLY # characteristic and will not work across a fabric. scan-down=0; # Determine how long the driver will wait to begin linkdown processing # when a cable has been pulled or the link has otherwise become # inaccessible, 1 - 255 secs. Linkdown processing includes failing back # cmds to the target driver that have been waiting around for the link # to come back up. There's a tradeoff here: small values of the timer # cause the link to appear to "bounce", while large values of the # timer can delay failover in a fault tolerant environment. Units are in # seconds. A value of 0 means never failback cmds until the link comes up. linkdown-tmo=60; # If set, nodev-holdio will hold all I/O errors on devices that disappear # until they come back. Default is 0, return errors with no-device-delay. nodev-holdio=0; # If set, nodev-tmo will hold all I/O errors on devices that disappear # until the timer expires. Default is 0, return errors with no-device-delay. nodev-tmo=60; # Use no-device-delay to delay FCP RSP errors and certain check conditions. delay-rsp-err=0; # Treat certain check conditions as an FCP error. check-cond-err=0; # num-iocbs: number of iocb buffers to allocate (128 to 10240) num-iocbs=2048; # num-bufs: number of ELS buffers to allocate (128 to 4096) # ELS buffers are needed to support Fibre channel Extended Link Services. # Also used for SLI-2 FCP buffers, one per FCP command, and Mailbox commands. num-bufs=1024; # topology: link topology for initializing the Fibre Channel connection. # 0 = attempt loop mode, if it fails attempt point-to-point mode # 2 = attempt point-to-point mode only # 4 = attempt loop mode only # 6 = attempt point-to-point mode, if it fails attempt loop mode # Set point-to-point mode if you want to run as an N_Port. # Set loop mode if you want to run as an NL_Port. topology=2; # Set a preferred ALPA for the adapter, only valid if topology is loop. # lpfc0-assign-alpa=2; Request ALPA 2 for lpfc0 # ip-class: FC class (2 or 3) to use for the IP protocol. ip-class=3; # fcp-class: FC class (2 or 3) to use for the FCP protocol. fcp-class=3; # Use ADISC for FCP rediscovery instead of PLOGI. use-adisc=0; # Extra FCP timeout for fabrics (in seconds). fcpfabric-tmo=0; # Number of 4k STREAMS buffers to post to IP ring. post-ip-buf=128; # Set to 1 to decrement lun throttle on a queue full condition. dqfull-throttle=1; #Use dqfull-throttle-up-time to specify when to increment the current Q depth. # This variable is in seconds. dqfull-throttle-up-time=1; # Increment the current Q depth by dqfull-throttle-up-inc dqfull-throttle-up-inc=1; # Use ACK0, instead of ACK1 for class 2 acknowledgement. ack0=0; # cr-delay: Coalesce Response Delay # This value specifies a count of milliseconds after which an interrupt response # is generated if cr-count has not been satisfied. This value is set to 0 # to disable the Coalesce Response feature as default. cr-delay=0; # cr-count: Coalesce Response Count # This value specifies a count of I/O completions after which an interrupt response # is generated. This feature is disabled if cr-delay is set to 0. cr-count=0; # Used only by i386 FCP (SCSI) flow_control="duplx" queue="qfifo" disk="scdk" tape="sctp"; # Solaris/x86 only: select allocation of memory for DMA. THIS VARIABLE # CAN AFFECT WHETHER LPFC RUNS CORRECTLY ON AN X86 PLATFORM. The Solaris # DDI specification mandates the use of ddi_dma_mem_alloc when allocating # memory suitable for DMA. This memory comes from a pool reserved at # boot-time and sized by a variable called "lomempages"; this variable # may be set in /etc/system. The variable defaults to a small value, e.g., # 36 pages, which isn't nearly enough for LPFC when running IP. Typically, # we've cranked the value up to 1100 pages or so. But this pool represents # precious "low memory" on a PC -- memory below the 16M address boundary. # This memory is also needed by the OS and other drivers. # # On some machines, we can get away with using kmem_zalloc instead of # ddi_dma_mem_alloc, thus avoiding the requirement to use lomempages. # However, this trick is NOT portable! Some x86 systems absolutely need # to use lomempages for their DMA. # # So... if you think your x86 system is one of those that requires the # use of lomempages, set this variable to one. Be sure to pick a suitable # value for lomempages in /etc/system; the value depends on how many of # the various kinds of buffers you allocate for IP and SCSI. Otherwise, # set this variable to zero and relax, as then lpfc can allocate the # memory it needs without further input from you. use-lomempages=0; # Old Open Boot Prom (SPARC): if your SPARC doesn't have a sufficiently # recent version of OBP, it may be unable to probe and identify a # LightPulse adapter. You will need to use the following workaround. # Important note: you can't just use the following three lines "as is"! # Refer to the Solaris LightPulse Device Driver documentation for details. #reg = 0x00801000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, # PCI # 0x02801010, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00001000, # SLIM # 0x02801018, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000100; # CSRs # link-speed: link speed selection for initializing the Fibre Channel connection. # 0 = auto select (default) # 1 = 1 Gigabaud # 2 = 2 Gigabaud link-speed=0; # MultiPulse configuration # # multipulse-fcp="lpfcXtYdZ:tr1: ... :lpfcXtYdZ:trN:route_flags"; # Where X, Y, and Z are the devices lpfc DDI interface, target, and LUN numbers. # tr1 thru trN, when N is up to 4, are the paths component of the traffic ratio # route_flags MUST be a 4 digit hex number for the following flags: # Load balancing flags (1 means cold standby) # MPL_PC_TYPE_FAILOVER 0x0001 /* cold standby */ # MPL_PC_TYPE_TRAFFIC_RATIO 0x0002 /* paths balanced by traffic ratio */ # MPL_PC_TYPE_DYNAMIC_LUNQ 0x0003 /* Dynamic balancing algrithnm used */ # MPL_PC_TYPE_DYNAMIC_TGTQ 0x0004 /* Dynamic balancing algrithnm used */ # MPL_PC_TYPE_DYNAMIC_HBAQ 0x0005 /* Dynamic balancing algrithnm used */ # # General flags # MPL_PC_CFG_AUTO_FAILBACK 0x0010 /* failback to primary path is auto */ # MPL_PC_CFG_VALIDATE_INQUIRY 0x0020 /* Vaildate all paths with inquiry */ # MPL_PC_CFG_INQUIRY_HEARTBEAT 0x0040 /* Validate path inquiry heartbeat */ # MPL_PC_CFG_FAIL_ABORT_TASK_SET 0x0080 /* Send ABORT_TASK_SET on failover */ # MPL_PC_CFG_FAIL_LUN_RESET 0x0100 /* Send LUN_RESET on failover */ # MPL_PC_CFG_FAIL_TARGET_RESET 0x0200 /* Send TARGET_RESET on failover */ # # The following example uses cold standby as path control and automatic failback # # Here is a sample configuration to setup lpfc0 target 0 lun 1 failover # to the MultiPulse device, lpfc1 target 0 lun 1 and lpfc0 target 0 lun 2 # failover to the MultiPulse device, lpfc1 target 1 lun 4. # multipulse-fcp="lpfc0t0d1:0:lpfc1t0d1:0:0010", # "lpfc0t0d2:0:lpfc1t1d4:0:0010"; # # BEGIN: MultiPulse managed entries # Doug Beam Unix Systems Manager Shop At Home Network LLC dbeam@sath.com Pager doug.beam@skytel.com Office 615 263-8356 Cell 615 618-2136 -----Original Message----- From: Loukinas, Jeremy [mailto:Jeremy.Loukinas@evenflo.com] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:19 AM To: Beam, Doug Subject: RE: EMC disk mapping Emulex. Jeremy S. Loukinas Unix Systems Administrator Evenflo Company, Inc. <mailto:jeremy.loukinas@evenflo.com <mailto:jeremy.loukinas@evenflo.com> > 937-415-3353 Business 937-415-3111 Fax -- Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off... -- -----Original Message----- From: Beam, Doug [mailto:dbeam@sath.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 4:06 PM To: 'Loukinas, Jeremy' Subject: RE: EMC disk mapping Are you familiar with EMC control center, and how to display the host director assignments. The number labeled as "Target/LUN" in the Host Director display screen is in hex and needs to be converted to decimal in the sd.conf for what ever target number you are using. I know in SCSI or Arbitrated Loop, EMC gives you the target number. But in SAN "I think" you can use any target number because of WWN bindings, we always start with target 20. What brand of Host Adapters are you using? I have JNI and Emelux LP8000's Doug Beam Unix Systems Manager Shop At Home Network LLC -----Original Message----- From: Loukinas, Jeremy [mailto:Jeremy.Loukinas@evenflo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:53 PM To: Beam, Doug Subject: RE: EMC disk mapping Connectrix San Jeremy S. Loukinas Unix Systems Administrator Evenflo Company, Inc. <mailto:jeremy.loukinas@evenflo.com <mailto:jeremy.loukinas@evenflo.com> > 937-415-3353 Business 937-415-3111 Fax -- Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off... -- -----Original Message----- From: Beam, Doug [mailto:dbeam@sath.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:50 PM To: 'Loukinas, Jeremy' Subject: RE: EMC disk mapping Are you connecting via Switched Fabric Fiber, Arbitrated Loop Fiber or Copper SCSI? Doug Beam Unix Systems Manager Shop At Home Network LLC -----Original Message----- From: Loukinas, Jeremy [mailto:Jeremy.Loukinas@evenflo.com <mailto:Jeremy.Loukinas@evenflo.com> ] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:16 PM To: sunmanagers@sunmanagers.org Subject: EMC disk mapping I have a V480R that I am attaching to emc sym. The V480 will see about 250 LUNS. How do I figure out the information to put in the sd.conf file? What is the logic behind what gets entered and what is shown @ a probe-scsi-all? Jeremy _______________________________________________ sunmanagers mailing list sunmanagers@sunmanagers.org http://www.sunmanagers.org/mailman/listinfo/sunmanagers <http://www.sunmanagers.org/mailman/listinfo/sunmanagers> _______________________________________________ sunmanagers mailing list sunmanagers@sunmanagers.org http://www.sunmanagers.org/mailman/listinfo/sunmanagersReceived on Thu Nov 6 13:09:24 2003
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