Managers,
Here is my belated summary on backups
My original post was as follows:
> We are in the process of evaluating third party backup products for our sun network, and have identified the following:
>
> Budtool by Delta Systems
> Backup.unet by System Center
> Networker by Legato
> Backup.Copilot by Sun Microsystems
>
> Are there any other products out there we missed ??
>
>
> thanks in advance, I'll summarize if interest warrants.
>
I received numerous responses, most of them asking for a summary
and/or product evaluations. I don't feel comfortable going into
product evals here since we are still contacting vendors , but here is a listing of additional products not on our list, along with a contact/phone numbers:
AT&T
product: "CommVault"
contact: Daniel K. Watson
phone : (908) 870-7406
fax : (908) 870-7579
Pinnacle Micro.
product: "Flashback"
contact: Kim Mallory
phone : (714) 727-3300
fax : (714) 727-1913
Alida
product: "gtbackup"
contact: Guy Colaneri
phone : (201) 384-0080
Fax : (201) 384-3382
Sceptre Corp
product: "ReelBackup"
phone: (313) 665)8778
This company's software is sold by the following company:
SCH
contact: Karen Christopher
phone : (800) 729-8649
fax : (513) 579-1064
Software Moguls
(612) 933-8790
No information.
Apunix Computer Services
5575 Ruffin Road, Suite 110
San Diego, CA 92123
product: "Network Backup Daemon"
contact: Madeline Phillips
phone : 1-800-8-APUNIX
(619) 495-9229
fax : (619) 495-9230
thanks to all who responded!! Following are some product reviews I received:
From: uunet!cadence!esanborn (Ed Sanborn)
Message-Id: <9201161944.AA00721@acae169.gda>
Subject: Re: Third party backup products
To: s5udtg@fnma.COM (Doug Griffiths)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 14:44:20 EDT
In-Reply-To: <9201161608.AA17535@tyco.milkyway>; from "Doug Griffiths" at Jan 16, 92 11:08 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL7]
Status: R
Hi,
I too have been evaluating. Budtool and Networker look good to me.
Backup.unet is expensive isn't it? I haven't checked out Backup.Copilot but
I thought it was a Delta OEM for Sun? At any rate let me know what you think. I like Delta's stuff as well as Legato.
Take care,
Ed
From: uunet!rsf.atd.ucar.edu!vanandel
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To: s5udtg@fnma.COM (Doug Griffiths)
Subject: Re: Third party backup products
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 16 Jan 92 11:08:01 -0500.
<9201161608.AA17535@tyco.milkyway>
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 14:47:49 -0700
Status: RO
I use a probduct called "gtbackup" from alida, 201-384-0080. I backup 9machines onto a single 8500 drive, and found it quite adequate for this
purpose. gtbackup runs "dump" for you, backing up the file systems you
request. You can request full or incremental backups on any collection
of file systems.
The biggest decision you have to make is whether to use a product likeNetworker that has a proprietary backup format, (they claim higher performance
as a result), or to use a product that sticks with the standard dump or tar
formats. For example, this morning, I had to boot a machine diskless, and
then restore a disk from tape. For me, I was glad that I was dealing with
tapes written in dump format, because I didn't have to install a specialutility just to restore the tape.
Joe VanAndel Internet:vanandel@ncar.ucar.edu
NCAR / RSF
P.O Box 3000 Fax: 303-497-2044
Boulder, CO 80307-3000 Voice: 303-497-2071
>From uunet!chani!chuck Thu Jan 16 18:14:02 1992
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From: uunet!chani!chuck (Chuck Yerkes)
Message-Id: <9201162200.AA00553@chani.fsg.com>
To: s5udtg@fnma.COM
Subject: Re: Third party backup products
Status: RO
BudTool - we got it to evaluate it. Our 6 Gig will need 500 Megabyte for
the backup database. I'm not giving up a drive to do backups that I cando adequately by hand.
Interested in what else you have seen.
Thnks
chuck
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Yerkes, System Administrator Internet: chuck@fsg.com
225 Broadway 24th Floor Voice: (212) 285-8001
>From uunet!mtu.edu!rel Thu Jan 16 18:14:05 1992
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Subject: Re: Third party backup products
To: s5udtg@fnma.COM (Doug Griffiths)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 17:16:37 EST
In-Reply-To: <9201161608.AA17535@tyco.milkyway>; from "Doug Griffiths" at Jan 16, 92 11:08 am
From: uunet!mtu.edu!rel (Robert E. Landsparger)
Quote: Darwin was right, and I'm helping.
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO
>
> Sun Managers,
>
> We are in the process of evaluating third party backup products for our
> sun network, and have identified the following:
>
> Budtool
> Backup.unet
> Networker
> Backup.Copilot
>
> Are there any other products out there we missed ??
We are currently using ReelBackup by Sceptre Corp of Ann Arbor, MI.
Kinda nice. It allows users to requset backups with a curses
type environment.
--I want to run that RABBIT over and over and over and over and over...
= Robert E. Landsparger = rel@mtu.edu - Computing Technology Services - (906) 487-2110 = geomaint@mtu.edu - Department of Geology - (906) 487-2167 = My comments rarely represent those of my employer
>From uunet!toshiba.tic.oz.AU!sysadmin Fri Jan 17 00:58:27 1992 Return-Path: <uunet!toshiba.tic.oz.AU!sysadmin> Received: from fnma.COM (sun330) by tyco.milkyway (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22745; Fri, 17 Jan 92 00:58:26 EST Received: from uunet.UUCP by fnma.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10323; Fri, 17 Jan 92 00:58:26 EST Received: from metro.ucc.su.OZ.AU by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA11800; Thu, 16 Jan 92 23:37:12 -0500 Received: by metro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (5.61/1.34) id AA01107; Fri, 17 Jan 1992 15:36:26 +1100 Received: from csdc_1.tic by tic (4.0/TIC-1.6 (SMI-4.0)) id AA02350; Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:35:29 EST Received: by csdc_1.tic (4.0/TIC-1.1 (SMI-4.0)) id AA26702; Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:35:44 EST Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:35:44 EST From: uunet!toshiba.tic.oz.AU!sysadmin (System Administrator) Message-Id: <9201170435.AA26702@csdc_1.tic> To: s5udtg@fnma.COM Subject: Re: Third party backup products Status: RO
I notice Budtool is on your list. The only advice I can give you about Budtool is DON'T DO IT! ... Your sanity is worth more than that!
We purchased Budtool around March of last year. The product arrived promptly, and the documentation looked good. However, on about the second or third step of the installation the actual install started looking nothing like the manual claimed it should. On about the sixth step the install crashed completly and repeditativly. I eventually tracked down the problem (the script made some very poor assumptions) and completed the install after about a day. I went through
repeditativly. I eventually tracked down the problem (the script made some very poor assumptions) and completed the install after about a day. I went through and setup a backup, then ran it. Everything looked ok.
Next step ... try to retrieve from the backup. Here is were the real fun began.
There was no way I could get a list of what was on the backup, and with a name Budtool would not retrieve anything. Eventually I found a small file containing several items, including the following:
-------- The following problems are still open in this release:
1. Retrieve will not work with tape drives not controlled by a Delta device driver. This is due to the fact that the Table of contents is not maintained on the tape. WORKAROUND: None.
[....] --------
Yes thats right. This company sold the thier backup utility WITHOUT mentioning that you also had to buy the device drivers they sold!
OK, once I had calmed down (several days :-) ) I rang Delta to arrange for the device drivers that suited our tape drive (I specified an Exabyte 8500).
The drivers arrived several weeks later, I installed them and rebooted as per the manual. I was then greeted by a message explaining that the drivers did not recognise the drive attached. I rang Delta again.
"Oh, THAT drive, no we don't support THAT drive yet."
So, there I was with this backup system that couldn't retrieve and a tape driver that didn't support my tape drive.
I then had a long talk with our local agent who in turn had a long talk with Delta. Things are better now. We have the system sort of working. Delta supplied us with the correct device driver (eventually) and a newer version of Budtool with far less bugs (yes, only less bugs. It still won't retrieve across multiple volumes correctly). The number of cludges we had to perform to get it to backup the Sun386is was amazing.
All in all it took over ten months to get everything sorted out.
Unless Delta has changed, along with Budtool, I'd recomend you leave them off your list. I know it looks like a nice system, that's why we picked it in the first place, but if we had known then what we know now ....
I've since heard a few good reports on "Legato networker", but thats all. It might be worth addeing to the list.
John
PS: I will happily admit that the email service I got was fast and responsive, if not always helpful.
============================================================================== = John Baird ACSnet: john@toshiba.tic.OZ .AU = = Toshiba International Corporation Pty Ltd Phone: +61-2-428-2077 = = Sydney, Australia Fax: +61-2-427-7405 = ==============================================================================
>From uunet!wbst845e.xerox.com!matt Fri Jan 17 10:08:39 1992 Return-Path: <uunet!wbst845e.xerox.com!matt> Received: from fnma.COM (sun330) by tyco.milkyway (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25420; Fri, 17 Jan 92 10:08:38 EST Received: from uunet.UUCP by fnma.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13191; Fri, 17 Jan 92 09:56:15 EST Received: from alpha.xerox.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA29530; Fri, 17 Jan 92 09:25:14 -0500 Received: from foundation.wbst845e.xerox.com ([13.2.49.99]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <11720>; Fri, 17 Jan 1992 06:24:43 PST Received: from voyager (voyager.wbst845e.xerox.com) by foundation.wbst845e.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16646; Fri, 17 Jan 92 09:22:54 EST Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1992 06:22:54 PST From: uunet!wbst845e.xerox.com!matt (Matt Goheen) Message-Id: <9201171422.AA16646@foundation.wbst845e.xerox.com> To: s5udtg@fnma.COM Subject: Re: Third party backup products Status: RO Please summarize -- or send be summary. We evaluated Budtool and will be evaluating Networker. I didn't do the actual Budtool evaluation, but it was deemed inadequate for our needs (in this case, "our" is field installations -- with no Unix savy or even Unix familiar staff). I have not received the actual written evaluation yet.
- Matt Goheen
>From uunet!usasoc.soc.mil!ted Fri Jan 17 15:12:04 1992 Return-Path: <uunet!usasoc.soc.mil!ted> Received: from fnma.COM (sun330) by tyco.milkyway (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28411; Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:12:03 EST Received: from uunet.UUCP by fnma.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14062; Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:12:02 EST Received: from usasoc.soc.mil by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA17698; Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:12:19 -0500 Message-Id: <9201172011.AA29192@usasoc.soc.mil> To: s5udtg@fnma.COM (Doug Griffiths) Subject: Re: Third party backup products In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 16 Jan 92 11:08:01 EST." <9201161608.AA17535@tyco.milkyway> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:16:24 EST From: Ted Nolan SRI Ft Bragg <uunet!usasoc.soc.mil!ted> Status: RO
Hi,
I'd be very much interested in a summary! I have looked briefly at all of these except backup.copilot, and my conclusion was that networker wasn'tquite there yet, it kept huge log files, and restored things with the wrong modes, and butdool was too complicated (though the GUI was nice). Backup.unet seemed pretty decent.
I'd be interested in someone else's conclusions.
>From uunet!UCSD.EDU!apunix!phb Fri Jan 17 20:31:07 1992 Return-Path: <uunet!UCSD.EDU!apunix!phb> Received: from fnma.COM (sun330) by tyco.milkyway (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29720; Fri, 17 Jan 92 20:31:06 EST Received: from uunet.UUCP by fnma.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15314; Fri, 17 Jan 92 20:31:06 EST Received: from ucsd.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA12935; Fri, 17 Jan 92 19:18:20 -0500 Received: from apunix.UUCP by ucsd.edu; id AA11760 sendmail 5.64/UCSD-2.2-sun via UUCP Fri, 17 Jan 92 16:06:37 -0800 Received: by apunix.uucp (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09104; Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:59:55 PST Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:59:55 PST From: uunet!UCSD.EDU!apunix!phb (Peter H. Berens) Message-Id: <9201172359.AA09104@apunix.uucp> To: s5udtg@fnma.COM Subject: backup products Cc: apunix!reply Status: RO
Doug,
My company, Apunix, offers a backup product that we ship for free with all of our 8 mm and 4 mm tape drives. It is also sold for $1000 end user or $750 government / eductional. It is not as fancy as Networker or BudTool, but most people feel it does a reliable job. The features are:
1. Unattended backup in the dump format. 2. Ability to continue and do the best job possible even when problems are encountered (such as a machine down on the network). 3. Notifies you via e-mail when there is a problem and does not bother you when there is no (unless you want it to). This means that an e-mail message stating a problem really stands out and not just part of a daily trash message you may start ignoring after a while. 4. You get source code. 5. You get free updates for the life of the product. 6. Comes with our full feature device driver that lets you get full access to all 8 mm / 4mm tape drive features. A. Reading/writing tapes in both fixed and variable record mode. B. Corrected tape error count on demand. C. Short/Long file marks (8mm) D. Turn compression on/off from each command to the drive (compression module optional with 8 mm / standard
D. Turn compression on/off from each command to the drive (compression module optional with 8 mm / standard built in in 4 mm). E. Extensive error diagnostics. F. Designed specifically (buffer parameters, etc.) for the tape drive its run. 7. Summary report program gives you transfer rate for each file system, total tape used, tape remaining, etc.
8. Full and incremental backup levels specifiable on a day of the week basis. Although we recommend doing full backups every day whenever possible.
9. We support the use of multiple tape drives for concurrent backup.
What we don't do that some other packages do (at least in the current version):
1. Indexing (we provide an index of the file systems dumped on each tape, not the individual files). Although we have a program you can run after the fact on the tape and create such an index you can "grep" through. Running the indexing after the fact means we don't slow down the backup and can do more in the wee hours when file system activity is low. Indexing (which is only a read pass over the tape) can be done anytime.
2. Tape labeling. We use whatever tape is in the drive.
3. Multiple tapes. Designed to be unattended. Multiple tapes will be shortly supported with our stacker products, however.
Hope this helps. If you'd like more information please let me know.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter H. Berens, Ph.D. Apunix Computer Services Internet: apunix!phb@ucsd.edu 5575 Ruffin Road, Suite 110 UUCP: ...!uunet!ucsd!apunix!phb San Diego, CA 92123 1-800-8-APUNIX (619) 495-9229
>From uunet!ritd.co.uk!ch Mon Jan 20 21:08:52 1992 Return-Path: <uunet!ritd.co.uk!ch> Received: from fnma.COM (sun330) by tyco.milkyway (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04882; Mon, 20 Jan 92 21:08:52 EST Received: from uunet.UUCP by fnma.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09852; Mon, 20 Jan 92 20:31:02 EST From: uunet!ritd.co.uk!ch Received: from eros.uknet.ac.uk by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA25466; Mon, 20 Jan 92 20:14:50 -0500 Received: from pyra.co.uk by eros.uknet.ac.uk with UUCP id <14897-0@eros.uknet.ac.uk>; Tue, 21 Jan 1992 01:14:51 +0000Received: from hotel.ritd.co.uk by golf.ritd.co.uk; Mon, 20 Jan 92 15:55:01 GMT Date: Mon, 20 Jan 92 15:54:47 GMT Message-Id: <5898.9201201554@hotel.ritd.co.uk> To: s5udtg@fnma.COM Subject: Re: Third party backup products Cc: alm@abars.att.com Status: RO
You asked (via the sun-managers list):
> We are in the process of evaluating third party backup products for our sun network, and have identified the following: > > Budtool > Backup.unet > Networker > Backup.Copilot > > Are there any other products out there we missed ??
I believe AT&T have a product which used to be called ABARS, but I believe its name may have changed. This is based on Dorosave from Dorotech which was developed for backups to optical disk from a network of TCP/IP based Un*x clients which support cpio.
I don't have details of the AT&T product but you might like to contact a customer support person there - Andreas May<alm@abars.att.com> who should be able to put you onto their sales people.
? @ @ --w---U---w-- Thanks, Chad Hanna,
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